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Which Characters do you Pity?

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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by Atlas on Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:08 pm

The only thing I've actually seen from the show is that the father is really harsh. I haven't seen any abuse or anything of the sort. Unless you're talking about psychological abuse but that's a really hard sell.

I was obviously joking around for the part about Ulrich but he really needs to get it together. He has the tools around him to make it work.

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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by QuinSeparable on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:58 pm

Psychological abuse, however, is not uncommon. It's actually the most common form of child abuse. It is hard to prove, but just because it's hard to prove doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Many of the interactions we see between Ulrich and his father can be considered emotionally abusive. I would understand his father encouraging him to do better, but that's not what he's doing at all. He's not doing it because he want's Ulrich to get better, rather he sees his son as an embarrassment.
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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by Atlas on Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:17 pm

Again, hard to sell when I just saw an episode that has his last words as "I'm proud of you, son."

Being a jerk doesn't make him abusive. Sure he could probably do a lot better, but that's all I can see so far.

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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by Snickie on Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:39 pm

I feel like playing devil's advocate at the moment, so I'm just going to leave you with this:

You've ever heard the saying that grandparents are nice to their grandchildren to make up for the mistakes they made with their own children so they'll gain points for getting into heaven? I can't help but wonder if Ulrich's dad was in the same situation there, except instead of making it up to his grandkids he had to make it up to his son because HE WAS HANGING ONTO TO HIM ONTO A SET OF BLEACHERS THAT WAS ABOUT TO FLOAT INTO OUTER SPACE. IN OTHER WORDS THEY WERE ALL ABOUT TO DIEEEEEEEE.

< /devil's advocate >

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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by Atlas on Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:10 pm

I love playing devil's advocate myself.
Or Mr. Stern's advocate in this case >.>

It's actually kind of funny that I'm actually defending the guy as a nice dude since my headcanon tells me he is a remnant of the Third Reich regime and he is trying to subvert Ulrich to his cause via being a total jerk and emasculating him at every opportunity.

But I digress to the actual defending.

Mr. Stern's goals in the actual show revolve mostly around Ulrich being the best at everything. Why this is (other than the already mentioned 'he wants the best for him') is either in some old Nazi documents or a complete mystery.

Just because he is terrible at doing the whole 'nurturing' thing and likes to tell Ulrich his friends are holding him back (which is actually true btw, from a certain point of view ) doesn't make him abusive. Just the typical jerk dad.

There's also the point that Ulrich basically gets a mulligan with each return to the past. Why isn't he studying? Heck, you're basically getting the same test twice just memorize the questions and just do those. Even an F student can do that >.>

That's basically why I can't pity Ulrich; You have some pretty obvious ways out of your problem and your jerk dad is actually raising some legitimate points.

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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by Neron641 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:51 pm

I find it comedic that I had a small group of people go off topic because of i got mad at the responses of this topic.

Thank you Snickie, you just judged some who name you don't even know you get a bloody gold star.

I apologize for not talking about Yumi on my last topic, so I'l be quick.

She seems to have a pretty good relationship with both her parents, it's just her parents don't like each other. And if she had a problem with it she sit down and have a talk with them about(which I think she did once?).

Yes, the warriors do have the world on their shoulders but, this topic was for individual pity not a problem they all have.

Before he passed away, I didn't have the healthiest relationship with my father. Sure we got along more in the last 2 years before he died but, before that he would get mad at me for not quitting sports choir and my evident grade drops. So you'd think I'd feel some sort of connection with Ulrich. But, I don't.

Most likely because I'm kind to most people (other than #YOLO Swagiots) and he's a prick. In Xana Awakens, look at him. He doesn't give a crap about anyone, Risked the life of Kiwi an innocent dog. Not to mention giving Odd, someone he new nothing about(I'm looking at you Snickie) the finger.

I am sorry for my hiatus and I will be returning to the forms.

By the way Cya CLC is on the way.
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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by Snickie on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:13 am

Well then.

My profound apologies for speculating about the little known characters in the show. I didn't realize being creative about a fictional character's thought processes was horrible and wrong, and I will go destroy my fanfictions and reviews right away, and request that others do the same so that we don't upset you anymore, and will change my opinions to follow yours, and never again judge another person just like you never judge anybody ever.

My new headcanons, courtesy of Neron:
Yumi's ok once she's away from the Ulrich-William-Sissi love drama.
Ulrich is an ungrateful brat.
Odd is selfish and greedy.
Jeremie's a complete douchebag.
Aelita is an angel who can do no wrong and Jeremie doesn't deserve her.
Anybody who's not Aelita deserves no pity because they're all greedy and whiney and have no REAL problems at all like she does.

Cool

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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by X. Jacob on Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:02 pm

Hear Hear!
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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by cya6 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:10 pm

^^This. Thank you Snickie.
(Wha's CLC? I feel I should know.)
Also, Neron, really? This is a place people can be open about anything. So if someone wants to argue about why Tamiya deserves pity, they can bloody well do that. You are not allowed to come here and be disparaging of other's opinion. Respectfully disagree or attempt to engage in an argument, defend your position, do NOT attack.
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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by Neron641 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:18 pm

HAHAHAHA You have no right to breath. Very Happy

I never said that Aeilita was a saint. She actually has flaws, quite a few actually. I just said that to me she is the only one worth pity at the time. After reading through the new posts I can agree that Yumi also deserves pity but, not to a great extent

The only reason I ever got mad at Vena was I wasn't all there mentally and it was a sad time for me. And for that Vena I apologize for losing my cool and I hope you can forgive. But, I didn't say that you need to change your opinions to fit mine please point to where I said that because I'm lost.

Also, when I meant by you judging someone you didn't know I meant myself, for you stated and I quote "He's nothing short of a Cya fanboy".

First of all I am a bit of a fanboy but, it's not like I'd cut myself if she started smoking pot. I just respect her a writer and I'm glad she has the same respect for me. And even if I was a head over heels, you don't know me as a human being, other than the little details that I had in my intro to this forum so you really didn't have a right to say anything more than I don't know him well, and even there you didn't really have to include yourself with the conversation. I wish you would of been a bit more mature with the situation. But, thank you because this mini war is what's getting me back to writing on this forum.

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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by Snickie on Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:03 pm

-is super glad her satirical rant was taken humorously, since apparently that's a problem most of the time-

off topic stuff:
Neron641 wrote:when I meant by you judging someone you didn't know I meant myself, for you stated and I quote "He's nothing short of a Cya fanboy".

I kind of figured that out when I went back and reread the thread after I'd posted that post, but I wasn't at a place where I could change it, and anyway, we needed a good dose of satire here.

I wasn't judging you; I was stating something that I had observed. I've noticed you do really like most if not all of Cya's writing and promote her a lot, which is what led me to make that comment. There were no malignant intentions within that statement. I'm smart enough to know that behind every username and fandom are real people with real lives.

Mini wars can be fun until they get out of hand. My last post was all meant in humor.

Okay, let's get back on-topic:

Who do you guys pity?

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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by X. Jacob on Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:18 pm

Now, not saying I disagree with you in the fact that Aelita is an Angel and can do no wrong, cause I COMPLETELY agree with that (Love Struck Idiot, ladies and Gentlemen. I'm in love with a cartoon. An extremely epic, Cartoon, mind you, but still a cartoon) But, I feel she deserves the most pity.

Let's examine the facts. Again. She lost her father, she lost her mother. She has NO life because she's been keeping a big secret, thanks to her father, mostly. She's in love with some D*ckwad (Sorry for the Language, Being around my family will do that to me) who doesn't care about her all that much. She has Glenn Quagmire for a friend (Odd), The Ungrateful, Selfish Imbecile who is probably Emo (Ulrich). And the goth who can't make up her damned mind about who she wants to freaking date. (Yumi)

So hells to the yes, I pity her. It's a shame we haven't invented the technology to be able to go into T.V. Shows and interact with the characters, cause I'd be cracking some heads if we could.......

*Mumbles to self while rubbing temples* She's just a cartoon, man. She doesn't exist...
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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by cya6 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:24 pm

Wanna know who I pity?
I pity the poor fool who next decides to insinuate for one second that Aelita deserves better than Jeremie.

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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by Neron641 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:09 pm

HAHAHAHA I love in-jokes.
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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by X. Jacob on Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:38 pm

Aelita DOES deserve better than jeremie. End of Story.
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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by cya6 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:46 pm

No.
Jeremie did everything for her. Not mostly everything. Everything.
He gave up his life for her. He drove himself insane for her. He sacrificed his future for her. He endangered his life for her. He endangered the world for her. He took the responsibility of the world on himself for her. He constantly puts himself through sleepless nights and restless days to save her.
How DARE you say she deserves better.
There isn't better. Better doesn't exist.
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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by X. Jacob on Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:12 pm

Ohhhh, I beg to Differ.

He's almost gotten her killed on more than one occasion.
He didn't care about how she felt about her father.
He yelled at her over something she didn't do.
He blows off her concert for WORK.
And he didn't even know she existed until he flipped that switch, so he endangered the world for no reason.
And have you EVER seen him actually hug and/or kiss her?
or even say something like "I love you"?
I think not.
I'm right, you're wrong.
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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by Snickie on Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:17 pm

Remember:
If Jeremie hadn't turned on the supercomputer, she probably wouldn't exist.
He is responsible for her very existence on Earth.
And if she didn't exist, then you could never fanboy over her.

Jeremie is the whole reason you are able to fanboy over Aelita!!
Laughing

After working all the logistics to bring Aelita into real-world existence only to have her whisked away by fanboys like you, you've got to pity him just a little. Razz

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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by X. Jacob on Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:21 pm

Oh, believe me when I say that I would love nothing more than to whisk Aelita away from Jeremie. I'd love her more than he would by a long shot.

And I never said I DIDN'T pity Jeremie, I just don't pity him a lot.

I guess he was good for SOMETHING. But not much else.


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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by cya6 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:25 pm

"He's almost gotten her killed on more than one occasion."
Yeah? That's a hazard that happens when the world is in danger. It sure beats not existing at all. If you're saying he's not 100% perfect, then you're stupid, cause she is far from.

"He didn't care about how she felt about her father."
Noooo, he had a thousand jobs to do, just to keep the world safe, ratherless save her. He. Just. Couldn't. Take. Another. Chore.

"He yelled at her over something she didn't do."
When?

"He blows off her concert for WORK."
I am resisting the urge to kill you now. His WORK? You mean, saving the world, his friends, and, oh right, her? Yeah, sorry, her life is more important than a concert. Try again.

"And he didn't even know she existed until he flipped that switch, so he endangered the world for no reason."
Nope. He didn't know the world was in danger til he found out about XANA, which was after he met her. So, he turned on it out of curiosity. He kept it on out of love.

"And have you EVER seen him actually hug and/or kiss her?
or even say something like "I love you"?"
That's because he's socially anxious and terrified of rejection. It's clear from his actions that he loves her.

"I think not.
I'm right, you're wrong."

ehehehehe. Try again.
Face it, you've lost. Now you're just being pathetic. Back down before you embarrass yourself further
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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by X. Jacob on Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:40 pm

*Sneezes* Oh, I'm sorry, I'm allergic to bullSh*t.

But I'll play your game.

Ok, I got one for you.

he went mental when Aelita got a (Pretty cool looking) Necklace, and he didn't give it to her.

He completely turned on everyone, interrogating him. He's possessive, and he CONSTANTLY tries to control her.

Eat it, Di'Kut
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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by cya6 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:44 pm

Um, last I checked, she was also kinda pissed when xana!Jeremie kissed Heidi.

I'm not taking everything you're saying and making you look stupid. You're argument doesn't hold water. And don't pretend you have a reason to hate Jeremie when you're argument is so full of holes it doesn't exist.
You're just jealous that she could never do better.

Also, it was clear that the two of them were interested.
Pretend you like a girl. Pretend she likes you. Pretend everyone knows this. You're really socially anxious, and afraid that someone else will steal her. You're friends assure you that no one would, and that Aelita loves you.
Suddenly, a wild jerk appears in the form of your friend!
A mysterious necklace appears as a gift.
You ask your friend if he gave it to her.
Instead of being a good friend and assuring his panicking, terrified friend that he didn't, he goads you into completely freaking out.
And then has the nerve to demand you apoligize.
He's not possessive. It's clear that she likes him and he likes her. Any of his friends would have to be assholes to make a move on one of them.
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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by QuinSeparable on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:15 pm

Warning: long post is long.

On the issue of Jeremie and Aelita. Cya makes valid points, but I'm sorry so does X. Jacob. Jeremie does sometimes fits SOME of the criteria as a controlling "boyfriend".

Cya, don't explode on me yet! Stay with me for a second....

Here is some criteria for an abusive\controlling relationship (the type that X. Jacob is claiming Jeremie of possessing): (under "spoiler" tab because it's LONG!)
Spoiler:

1. Does your partner tease you in a hurtful way in private or in public?
*No Jeremie has not teased Aelita in a hurtful way neither in private or public.

2. Does your partner call you names such as "stupid" or "*****"?
*No

3. Does your partner act jealous of your friends, family, or co-workers?
*Yes On a few occasions Jeremie has been jealous of their friends. Everyone in "Saint Valentin's Day" comes to mind.

4. Does your partner get angry about clothes you wear or how you style your hair?
*No We have never seen Jeremie get angry about her clothing choices.

5. Does your partner check-up on you by calling, driving by, or getting someone else to?
*No - Some might argue with me here on this one saying Jeremie has called and asked Aelita where she was\what she was doing. However, these cases fall under "XANA's attacking, are you okay?" therefore I cannot label this as unusual\abusive.

6. Has your partner gone places with you or sent someone just to "keep an eye on you"?
*No - Checking on Aelita's whereabouts when she first came to live on earth does NOT count.

7. Does your partner insist on knowing who you talk with on the phone?
*No - Jeremie might casually ask "who was that", but he has never demanded her to tell him\grabbed her phone from her to check her.

8. Does your partner blame you for his problems or his bad mood?
*No - Jeremie might have snapped at Aelita once when working on her materialization code claiming that "if they keep working against each other we're never going to succeed", however we have ALL done this at points. It happens. Just because it happens once doesn't make it abuse.

9. Does your partner get angry so easily that you feel like you're "walking on eggshells"?
*No - NOTHING in Aelita's actions or speech has ever suggested this. Neither has her body language.

10. Does your partner hit walls, drive dangerously, or do other things to scare you?
*No - Jeremie? Yeeeeaaaa...no. Just no.

11. Does your partner often drink or use drugs?
*No - Obviously this is a kid's show so this won't be touched on. However, if it wasn't, the likelihood Jeremie doing these are slim to none.

12. Does your partner insist that you drink or use drugs with him?

13. Have you lost friends or no longer see some of your family because of your partner?
*No - Aelita probably sees MORE of her friends than most people would.

14. Does your partner accuse you of being interested in someone else?
*Yes - In a way. Jeremie has accused Odd and Ulrich of being interested in her. He has also questioned her in "XANA's Kiss"...granted keep in mind you would have too if you saw your girl\boyfriend kissing someone else.

15. Does your partner read your mail, go through your purse, or other personal papers?
*No - There has been no evidence to support this.

16. Does your partner keep money from you, keep you in debt, or have "money secrets?"
*No

17. Has your partner kept you from getting a job, or caused you to lose a job?
*No

18. Has your partner sold your car, made you give up your license, or not repaired your car?

19. Does your partner threaten to hurt you, your children, family, friends, or pets?
*No

20. Does your partner force you to have sex when you do not want to?
*No - Again, kid's show but he would not do that.

21. Does your partner force you to have sex in ways that you do not want to?

22. Does your partner threaten to kill you or himself if you leave?
*No

23. Is your partner like "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde," acting one way in front of other people and another way when you are alone?
*No - Jeremie acts the same no matter who's around.

2 "yes" answers out of 23 questions doesn't really hold up for the criteria of an abusive\controlling relationship. Are there issues of concern? Yes definitely. Jeremie does have some issues he really needs to work out. Saying that Aelita and Jeremie's relationship is "perfect" just isn't true, just like saying Jeremie is abusive\controlling. He definitely has some issues to work out so that he doesn't fall that way later on (because it is entirely possible) but I can see him learning from his mistakes as well.

*ALL of them have almost been killed on more than one occasion. That's what happens when you fight against an evil AI hell-bent on destroying the world....Jeremie included!
*Jeremie should have tried to have been more understanding about her father - but he later goes back and helps her look for information about her father.
*I can't recall him "yelling at her for something she didn't do"...unless you're referring to "XANA's Kiss"? See above.
*Jeremie should not have told Aelita that her interest in DJing was misplaced or blown off her gig to work on something that could have been saved for later - but he apologized and hasn't done it since.
*Jeremie should not have got bat-poop crazy about the necklace...but has it happened again? No.
*He was curious about the supercomputer. That's why he turned it on. He had NO IDEA that it would house an evil AI bent on the destruction of the world. Seriously, would you think that?
*Jeremie has not ever hug\kiss her. Jeremie's personality isn't wired that way. He won't make the first move. And, they aren't actually a couple so, therefore to many (maybe even including himself) he has no right to do so. And Jeremie's a bit of a socially awkward nerd. As a socially awkward person myself let me tell you that I never walked up to my crush to hug\kiss them EVER. Not until after we were dating and he initiated the first contact.
*"I'm right, you're wrong" is a pretty petty thing to say and discredits any good points that you've made in your original argument. It's childish and has NO place in a debate.

Neither does "you're just being pathetic".

I would completely disagree that Jeremie and Aelita's relationship is perfect but I would also disagree that he's an abusive jackhole as well. I'll say it again: Jeremie does have his issues that he needs to learn from, but isn't that true for all of us?

BUT ANYWAY....

Let's stop the petty squabbling and name-calling because it's childish and immature in a discussion topic. What's more, we are WAY OFF TOPIC and should get back there. I think for any further discussion of this particular topic should be moved to a shipping thread and toned WAAAAY down. Guys you can discuss this without getting all pissy about it.

I hope someone reads this post in it's entirety because it took me almost 45 minutes to write\edit it.


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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by The Pastamancer on Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:29 am

I pity a few people.

First off Aelita. Here entire life sucks except her friends. This is self explanatory. I easily pity her the most.

Jeremie comes from a completely friendless background. I have had similar experiences and it tends to be bad.

William lost a significant part of his life and his reputation. That I assume sucks a lot.

Ulrich has a lot of fights with his dad over his grades. I don't know exactly what that's like but I assume that it is pretty bad.
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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

Post by Atlas on Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:39 pm

This thread is going in all the right directions lol.

Anyway most already know my opinion on the J/A debacle but I'll repeat.

I mostly agree with X.Jacob. Jeremy is one bad incident away from going pants-on-head psychotic. The dude seriously needs some Chill PillsTM and quick because he works way too hard.

On top of that, he's really kind of disturbing if you start to take the show seriously. If we take everything at face value he apparently falls in love with a computer program and is willing to risk an avoidable end of the world for said program.

He got lucky that it turned out she was actually human. >.>

But in his defense if you put that much investment into a girl you might be a little protective of it.

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Re: Which Characters do you Pity?

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